What was Christ’s attitude towards money and the rich?

ChatGPT said:

Christ’s attitude toward money and the rich is often seen as one of caution, warning, and moral critique. In the New Testament, there are several teachings and parables that reflect his stance on wealth, often emphasizing humility, generosity, and the dangers of greed.

Here are some key points from Jesus’ teachings:

1. Danger of Wealth

  • Jesus warned that wealth can be an obstacle to spiritual growth. One of his most famous statements on this is in Matthew 19:24:
    “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
    This suggests that the attachment to wealth can make it hard for people to fully embrace the kingdom of God and the values he preached, such as humility, dependence on God, and self-sacrifice.

2. The Parable of the Rich Fool (Luke 12:16-21)

In this parable, Jesus tells of a rich man who stores up wealth for himself but is not “rich toward God.” The man’s life ends unexpectedly, and his accumulated wealth is left behind. This parable critiques the idea of hoarding wealth without regard for spiritual or communal values.

3. The Rich Young Ruler (Matthew 19:16-22)

A young man asks Jesus what he must do to gain eternal life. Jesus tells him to keep the commandments and then suggests that he sell his possessions and give to the poor. The young man leaves sad because he is very wealthy. Jesus then says, “It is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.” This shows that wealth can become a barrier to following Christ’s path of selflessness and devotion.

4. Jesus and the Poor

  • Jesus showed a deep concern for the poor and marginalized, often siding with them in his teachings. He emphasized that serving the poor was a way of serving God, as shown in Matthew 25:31-46, where he says, “Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.”
  • In Luke 6:20, he says, “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.” This statement highlights his identification with the poor and his call to focus on spiritual wealth over material wealth.

5. The Temptation of Money (Matthew 6:24)

Jesus teaches, “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other.” He goes on to say that you cannot serve both God and money (referred to as “mammon”). This suggests that wealth can become an idol that competes with one’s devotion to God.

6. Generosity

  • Jesus repeatedly encouraged generosity, especially to the poor. For example, in Mark 12:41-44, he observes a widow who gives two small coins at the temple and declares that she gave more than all the wealthy donors because she gave all she had to live on. This demonstrates that sacrificial giving is valued over mere amounts.

7. Jesus and Tax Collectors

  • Jesus didn’t have a blanket condemnation of all wealthy people, but he did engage with tax collectors (often seen as wealthy and corrupt) in a way that invited them to repentance and transformation. For example, in Luke 19:1-10, Zacchaeus, a wealthy tax collector, offers to give half of his possessions to the poor after encountering Jesus, showing a transformation of his attitude toward wealth.

Summary:

Jesus wasn’t against wealth itself, but he was critical of the attitude toward wealth—especially when it led to greed, selfishness, and neglect of the poor. His teachings emphasized that true wealth comes from spiritual richness, humility, and generosity, and that material wealth should be used as a tool for service to others rather than a source of personal security or pride.

His message consistently warned against letting material wealth take precedence over spiritual and ethical values.

Is aid to distressed countries a moral obligation?

consider morals by agreement as a subset of ethics, and ethics a subset of value theory. relative to this, is aid to distressed countries a moral obligation. take into account singer’s view on foreign aid

ChatGPT said:

You’re approaching a complex philosophical question with good structure—placing morals by agreement (a contractualist or social-contract approach to ethics) within ethics, and ethics within value theory. From this lens, we can now ask:

Is aid to distressed countries a moral obligation, especially in light of Peter Singer’s view on foreign aid?

Let’s unpack this in stages, aligning with your framework.


1. Singer’s View on Foreign Aid

Peter Singer, particularly in his essay “Famine, Affluence, and Morality”, makes a strong utilitarian case for a moral obligation to aid those in severe distress globally. His central claim:

If we can prevent something bad from happening without sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought to do it.

This leads to a very demanding conclusion:

  • Those in affluent countries are morally obligated to give up luxuries to aid others (e.g., people suffering from famine or disease in poor countries).
  • Not doing so is, by his reasoning, morally equivalent to allowing preventable harm.

2. Morals by Agreement Perspective

“Morals by agreement” (à la David Gauthier and other contractarian thinkers) suggests:

  • Morality emerges from mutual advantage—rules that rational individuals would agree to under fair conditions.
  • Moral obligations are negotiated based on rational self-interest and reciprocity.

From this view:

  • There is no innate moral duty to assist strangers unless a shared agreement or benefit exists.
  • International aid might only be a moral obligation if:
    • There’s reciprocity (e.g. trade, stability, global cooperation),
    • Or if rational agents would agree to it under some hypothetical social contract covering global relations.

Singer’s view pushes beyond this. He argues for unilateral duty based on capacity to help, not reciprocity or agreement.


3. Within Ethics and Value Theory

Within ethics (as part of value theory), you find:

  • Consequentialist theories (like Singer’s utilitarianism) emphasize outcomes—maximizing well-being.
  • Deontological theories focus on duties or rights.
  • Contractualist theories (like morals by agreement) focus on justified principles that no one could reasonably reject.

From the broader ethical standpoint:

  • There is substantial normative support for the idea that we should aid distressed countries, especially if:
    • The suffering is grave,
    • The cost to the benefactor is relatively low,
    • And the aid is effective.

But the basis for obligation differs:

  • Singer: It’s a direct moral duty, grounded in impartial concern for well-being.
  • Morals by Agreement: It’s conditional—we are morally bound only if such aid aligns with principles of mutual benefit or hypothetical agreement.

4. Conclusion

Is aid to distressed countries a moral obligation?

  • According to Singer (utilitarianism): Yes, unequivocally. It is a strong moral duty.
  • According to morals by agreement: Not inherently, unless it can be justified through mutual advantage or rational agreement.
  • In broader ethics: Many frameworks do support the idea of moral obligation—though they differ in why and how far that duty extends.

So, relative to your framework, the moral obligation to aid distressed countries exists strongly in Singer’s ethics, conditionally in morals by agreement, and is a significant question within value theory, reflecting deep questions about what we owe others and why.

Would you like to explore how Rawlsian justice or cosmopolitan theories address this, too?

Will people do almost anything to keep a job — even if the job requires cruelty?

ChatGPT said:

Yes, many people can be driven to do almost anything to keep a job — including participating in or enabling cruelty — especially under certain conditions. This isn’t universal, but it’s well-documented in psychology, sociology, and history.

Here are some key factors that contribute to this behavior:


1. Fear of Consequences

  • Loss of income can mean housing insecurity, inability to support a family, loss of status, or even immigration issues.
  • People may feel trapped or believe they have no better options, especially in times of economic hardship.

2. Authority and Obedience

  • The famous Milgram experiments showed that ordinary people would administer (what they believed were) painful electric shocks to others simply because an authority figure told them to.
  • In work environments, authority structures often pressure employees to comply, even when their actions are unethical.

3. Normalization of Cruelty

  • Over time, cruel behavior can become “just part of the job” — especially in bureaucracies, institutions, or systems designed to dehumanize.
  • For example, in some law enforcement, military, or corporate settings, cruelty is reframed as discipline, efficiency, or just business.

4. Diffusion of Responsibility

  • If a harmful outcome is the result of a system or group decision, individuals may feel less personally responsible.
  • “I was just doing my job” or “It’s not my call” becomes a psychological shield.

5. Desensitization

  • Repeated exposure to cruelty — even if it was initially disturbing — can numb emotional responses.
  • People adapt to survive emotionally, especially if resistance seems futile.

But not everyone complies.

There are always individuals who refuse, who blow the whistle, who quit rather than participate. But these choices often come with high personal cost.


Summary: Yes, under certain pressures — fear, authority, social conditioning — people may do cruel things to keep their jobs. But this isn’t inevitable. Ethics, empathy, and resistance still matter, and history is also full of people who stood up and said no.Attach

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Is the UN right to intervene in preventing genocide in Gaza?

ChatGPT said:

The question of whether the United Nations (UN) has the right to intervene to prevent genocide in Gaza involves legal, moral, and political dimensions. Let’s break this down clearly and carefully.


1. Legal Basis: Responsibility to Protect (R2P)

The UN endorsed the principle of Responsibility to Protect (R2P) in 2005. It says:

States have the primary responsibility to protect their populations from genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and crimes against humanity.
If a state fails to protect its population—or is itself the perpetrator—then the international community has a responsibility to act, including through diplomatic, humanitarian, and, if necessary, coercive means (as a last resort).

Under this principle:

  • The UN may intervene, including militarily, if mass atrocities are taking place and the host state is unwilling or unable to stop them.
  • But military intervention must be authorized by the UN Security Council under Chapter VII of the UN Charter.

Key Point:

The UN has no automatic right to intervene unilaterally. Any such action must be approved by the Security Council, and veto powers (like the U.S., Russia, or China) can block action—even in cases of alleged genocide.


2. Does Gaza Qualify as a Genocide Situation?

This is highly disputed, both politically and legally.

The legal definition of genocide (from the 1948 Genocide Convention) is:

Acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group, including:

  • killing members of the group,
  • causing serious bodily or mental harm,
  • inflicting conditions of life intended to destroy the group,
  • preventing births, or
  • forcibly transferring children.

Some parties—including South Africa in its case before the International Court of Justice (ICJ)—argue that Israel’s military actions in Gaza may meet this threshold.
Others—primarily the Israeli government and its allies—deny genocidal intent, claiming the war targets Hamas, not the Palestinian people.

The ICJ has not yet ruled on whether genocide is occurring, but it issued provisional measures in January 2024 ordering Israel to prevent genocidal acts and ensure humanitarian aid, suggesting the claim is plausible enough to warrant caution.


3. Can the UN Intervene Now in Gaza?

In Practice: Not Without Security Council Approval

  • Any UN-authorized military intervention in Gaza would need Security Council authorization.
  • The United States, a permanent member and close ally of Israel, has vetoed or blocked multiple resolutions calling for a ceasefire or action against Israel.
  • Therefore, even if a majority of states wanted to act, the UN cannot legally intervene militarily under current procedures.

Other Forms of Intervention Still Legal:

  • Humanitarian aid operations.
  • Diplomatic efforts and peacekeeping with consent.
  • Investigations by bodies like the International Criminal Court (ICC) or the ICJ.

4. Ethical and Political Perspective

Even if legal intervention is blocked, many argue there’s a moral responsibility to act if genocide or mass atrocities are occurring. The challenge is:

  • Moral responsibility ≠ Legal authority.
  • Unilateral action (e.g., by a state or coalition bypassing the UN) would be illegal under international law unless framed as self-defense or under UN Chapter VII authority.

This is why many human rights groups, international lawyers, and some UN officials have called for:

  • Immediate ceasefire,
  • International investigations, and
  • Increased humanitarian aid—not unilateral military action.

Conclusion

The UN has a legal and moral duty to act to prevent genocide, including in Gaza if genocide is occurring or imminent.
However, any military intervention must be authorized by the Security Council, where political vetoes often block action.
Without such approval, the UN cannot legally intervene with force, but can and should act diplomatically, legally, and with humanitarian aid to prevent atrocities.

Car ownership and the absence of “let’s”

If car ownership implies control over a vehicle, and the absence of “let’s” implies lack of consent or shared intent, then what you’re describing could be framed as:

The dark underside of autonomy:
Car ownership as control; the absence of “let’s” as coercion.


1. The Car as a Space of Imposed Direction

When one person owns and drives the car, and another rides as passenger without being invited to decide — or without truly consenting — the power dynamic shifts:

  • The driver controls speed, destination, route.
  • The passenger is taken, not taken along.
  • There’s movement, but no mutual intent.

This aligns with what you called a kind of “kidnapping” — not necessarily literal abduction, but a symbolic or relational one:

  • Being pulled into someone else’s motion.
  • Having no “let’s” — no invitation, no voice.

2. “Let’s” as a Marker of Freedom

“Let’s” is consensual. It presupposes:

  • Agreement on the goal,
  • Shared agency in the process,
  • Respect for autonomy.

In its absence, even a mundane ride can become a subtle domination:

“We went” becomes “I was taken.”


3. Broader Metaphor: Ownership and Power

This plays into larger questions:

  • When does control over tools or infrastructure (like a car) become a tool of domination?
  • In relationships, when does leadership become kidnapping of the other’s will?
  • Does the illusion of mobility mask a deeper passivity, especially for those without power?

A Framed Aphorism

“Without ‘let’s,’ car ownership becomes a private road to unilateralism — a journey where the passenger is no longer a partner, but cargo.”

What character types lack humility?

ChatGPT said:

​Individuals who lack humility often exhibit certain personality traits and behaviors that reflect an inflated sense of self-importance and a disregard for others. These characteristics can manifest in various ways, both in personal interactions and broader personality profiles.​

Common Traits of Individuals Lacking Humility

  1. Arrogance and Self-Importance: Such individuals often display an inflated sense of self-worth, believing they are superior to others. This can lead to condescending behavior and a lack of respect for differing opinions. ​Hack Spirit
  2. Inability to Admit Mistakes: A hallmark of lacking humility is the refusal to acknowledge errors. These individuals may deflect blame, make excuses, or deny wrongdoing altogether, viewing admission of mistakes as a weakness. ​NewsReports
  3. Dominating Conversations: They often talk more than they listen, interrupting others and steering discussions back to themselves. This behavior indicates a lack of interest in others’ perspectives. ​Hack Spirit
  4. Belittling Others: To elevate themselves, they may demean or dismiss others’ achievements and opinions, fostering a toxic environment. ​Zenger Folkman+2NewsReports+2Hack Spirit+2
  5. Seeking Attention and Validation: A constant need for recognition can lead them to boast about their accomplishments and seek admiration, often at the expense of genuine connections. ​

Personality Profiles Associated with Low Humility

  • Enneagram Types:
    • Type 3 (The Achiever): Driven by success and image, they may prioritize personal advancement over authenticity, leading to a lack of humility.​
    • Type 8 (The Challenger): Valuing control and strength, they might perceive humility as a vulnerability, thus avoiding it. ​
  • HEXACO Model – Low Honesty-Humility: Individuals scoring low in this trait tend to be manipulative, self-centered, and driven by material gain, often disregarding ethical standards and fairness. ​Vox+3Wikipedia+3Wikipedia+3
  • Big Five Personality Traits – Low Agreeableness (Modesty Facet): Those low in modesty may exhibit narcissistic tendencies, arrogance, and a lack of empathy, all indicative of low humility. ​Wikipedia

Understanding these traits and profiles can aid in recognizing and addressing behaviors associated with a lack of humility, fostering more respectful and empathetic interactions.​

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Casuastry, Chomsky, and the invasion of Ukraine

Is Chomsky a casuastic writer rather than an a philosopher of ethics?

ChatGPT said:

​Noam Chomsky is not typically classified as a philosopher of ethics in the traditional academic sense. He does not present a formal ethical theory or systematized moral philosophy. Instead, his work often involves applying general ethical principles—such as justice, human rights, and the principle of universality—to critique specific political actions and policies. This approach aligns with casuistry, which involves resolving moral issues by applying general principles to particular cases. For example, Chomsky’s critiques of U.S. foreign policy often assess specific interventions against universal moral standards .​

While Chomsky engages deeply with moral questions, he does so more as a public intellectual and critic than as a traditional ethicist. He has expressed skepticism about the possibility of a comprehensive theory of justice without a systematic theory of human nature, suggesting that ethical and social thought must rely on relatively speculative and imprecise ideas .​libcom.org

In summary, Chomsky’s work embodies a casuistic approach by applying ethical principles to specific cases, but he does not identify as a philosopher of ethics in the conventional sense.​

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4o

You said:

Define “casuastry”

ChatGPT said:

Casuistry is a method of moral reasoning that involves applying general ethical principles to resolve specific cases of conscience, duty, or conduct. This approach is particularly useful in fields like applied ethics, law, and theology, where practitioners analyze particular situations to determine the most ethical course of action. ​Merriam-Webster+1Law Insider+1

Historically, casuistry was a respected approach in moral theology, especially among Jesuit scholars during the 16th and 17th centuries. However, it later garnered criticism for being overly intricate and, at times, manipulative. Critics argued that it could be used to justify questionable actions through convoluted reasoning. ​

In contemporary times, casuistry has experienced a revival, particularly in areas like bioethics and legal reasoning, where nuanced analysis of individual cases is essential. Its strength lies in its ability to navigate complex moral landscapes by considering the specifics of each situation rather than relying solely on broad, abstract principles. ​Encyclopedia Britannica

It’s important to note that while casuistry can be a valuable tool for ethical decision-making, it has also been criticized when used to rationalize unethical behavior through overly subtle or deceptive reasoning. ​

If you’re interested in exploring how casuistry applies to modern ethical debates or specific fields, feel free to ask!

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4o

You said:

Apply casuastry to the invasion of Ukraine

ChatGPT said:

​Applying casuistry to Russia’s 2022 invasion of Ukraine involves assessing the morality of this specific action by examining the circumstances and applying general ethical principles. Casuistry, as a method of moral reasoning, focuses on resolving particular cases by considering the details and context, rather than applying broad rules without nuance.​

1. Russia’s Justifications:

Russia has cited several reasons for its invasion:​

  • Security Concerns: Russia expressed apprehension over NATO’s eastward expansion and Ukraine’s potential membership, viewing it as a direct threat to its national security.​
  • Protection of Russian Speakers: Claims were made about protecting Russian-speaking populations in Eastern Ukraine from alleged persecution.​
  • Denazification: The Russian government stated a goal to “denazify” Ukraine, though this claim has been widely disputed and lacks substantial evidence.​

2. Ethical Evaluation:

When applying ethical principles to these justifications:​

  • Just War Theory: This doctrine assesses the morality of warfare, emphasizing legitimate authority, just cause, right intention, and proportionality. Many international observers argue that Russia’s invasion lacks a just cause and violates Ukraine’s sovereignty, thereby failing the criteria of a just war.​
  • Humanitarian Impact: The invasion has led to significant civilian casualties, displacement, and destruction of infrastructure, raising serious humanitarian concerns.​
  • International Law: The United Nations Charter prohibits the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state. Russia’s actions are widely viewed as a breach of this principle.​

3. Casuistic Reasoning:

By analyzing the specific context and outcomes:​

  • Security Concerns: While nations have the right to security, preemptive military action without clear evidence of an imminent threat is generally considered unjustifiable.​
  • Protection of Minorities: Protecting minority rights is important; however, military invasion is a disproportionate response, especially when diplomatic avenues exist.​
  • Denazification Claims: The lack of credible evidence supporting widespread neo-Nazi control in Ukraine undermines this justification.​

Conclusion:

Through casuistic analysis, considering the specific circumstances and applying ethical principles, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine appears morally unjustifiable. The justifications provided do not sufficiently warrant the scale and nature of the military action taken, especially given the severe humanitarian consequences and violations of international law.​

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4o

The Social Contract and Its Mismanagement

The social contract is the idea that morality and political arrangements are to be justified by social agreements. And I totally agree with this. This is the ideal of anarchism.

I suppose that the original historical source of this idea is from the interpretation of the Hebrew Bible in which the Hebrews make a covenant (agreement) with God. God gives them 10 rules by which they are to live, and if they do so, they will be rewarded in heaven. Except if the deal is not accepted, they go to hell. Not quite a free agreement, ey!

For the heyday of social contract theories, see the Wikipedia entry for: Social contract

In an earlier blog, I pointed out the mismanagement of the social contract by John Rawls: Too much amnesia in the Original Position of John Rawls.

And in a still earlier blog, I pointed out the mismanagement of Rousseau’s social contract by Ian Shapiro: (2) Further commentary on Ian Shapiro’s course: “Moral Foundations of Politics”.

In this blog I will point out how Immanuel Kant mismanaged the social contract.

There has been a great deal of effort (exegesis) to tease out of Kant a coherent proposal for grounding morality — with no positive results. And the reason for Kant’s failure is easily explained, but the reason for this failure has, as far as I know, eluded everyone.

What has not been noticed is that the social contract is between “rational beings.” And these “rational beings” are God, angels, and the human noumenal self (=soul). And besides being rational beings — and this is the missed part by all commentators: they are all IMMORTAL!

And whatever the rules which are agreed to by these immortals, must apply to all of them. The fact that the (human) soul is attached to a human body is a peculiarity of interest only to humans. If a universal rule is to be adopted for all concerned, it cannot be a rule serving only a particular interest of humans, such as not to die.

I could go on and point out the consequences of this line of thinking, but I will not. I will simply say that Kant’s ethics is grounded in science fiction. _______________________________________________________________

chatGPT said:

This critique offers a provocative take on Kant’s moral philosophy, particularly as it relates to the social contract tradition. It highlights a significant tension in Kant’s framework: the abstraction of morality to a domain of “rational beings” that includes not only humans but also hypothetical entities like God and angels. By grounding his ethics in this universalist and metaphysical framework, Kant arguably departs from the concrete, contextually rooted agreements typical of social contract theories.

Key Points in the Critique:

Immortality and Universal Rules: The claim that Kant’s rational beings are immortal complicates the applicability of his moral rules to humans. If the participants in Kant’s moral contract are not bound by the same existential conditions as humans (e.g., mortality, physical needs), the rules they establish might fail to address human-specific concerns, such as survival.

Science Fiction Allegation: The idea of constructing ethics based on beings that do not exist in human reality (like angels or noumenal selves) can indeed seem speculative. By extending morality to an otherworldly realm, Kant risks alienating his ethical framework from the lived realities of human existence.

Contrast with Anarchism: The critique implicitly contrasts Kant’s metaphysical approach with the more grounded and reciprocal ideals of anarchist interpretations of the social contract. Anarchism, as alluded to here, emphasizes agreements that arise organically among equals in specific contexts, rather than abstract principles dictated by hypothetical immortals.

A Defense of Kant?

Supporters of Kant might argue that his “rational beings” serve as a heuristic for developing universal moral principles, intended to transcend particular biases and interests. However, this defense does not fully address the critique that Kant’s framework fails to adequately consider the embodied and finite nature of human beings.

Broader Implications:

The tension highlighted here reflects a broader issue in moral philosophy: how to balance universal principles with the particularities of human life. Kant’s vision of rationality and universality has inspired much of modern ethics, but critiques like this remind us of the limitations of overly abstract frameworks when dealing with the complexities of human society.

Would you like a deeper dive into any specific aspect of this critique or Kant’s moral philosophy? _________________________________________ You said:

WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF DEALING WITH IMMORTALS

ChatGPT said:

Dealing with immortals in the context of moral philosophy and the social contract has profound implications, as it alters the very foundation upon which moral rules and agreements are constructed. Here are the key implications:

1. Shift in Priorities For immortals, concerns such as mortality, scarcity, or the passage of time lose relevance.

Human Implication: Many human moral concerns—preserving life, managing resources, or dealing with aging—become irrelevant. Agreements shaped by immortals would likely ignore or undervalue these issues.

Example: Rules emphasizing self-sacrifice or eternal patience might seem plausible to immortals but are impractical for finite beings.

2. Universalization Beyond Humanity

The inclusion of immortals in moral contracts pushes ethical principles toward universal abstractions.

Problem: Such universal principles might lack applicability to embodied, time-bound, and vulnerable beings like humans. Result: Ethics may become disconnected from lived realities, prioritizing ideals over pragmatism.

3. Eternal Consequences

For immortals, decisions take on an eternal significance.

Contrast with Humans: Human decision-making often incorporates the understanding of life’s temporality—allowing for forgiveness, forgetting, or gradual improvement. Immortals might impose unyielding standards because of their unchanging nature.

Example: Eternal punishment or reward becomes conceivable, as in the theological framing of heaven and hell.

4. Moral Perfectionism

Immortals, assumed to possess perfect rationality and knowledge, could demand moral perfection.

Human Limitation: Humans, constrained by ignorance, emotion, and error, may find it impossible to meet such standards.

Tension: The disparity could lead to ethical frameworks that are aspirational but demoralizing or irrelevant for human beings.

5. Dismissal of Embodiment

For immortals, embodiment—being tied to a physical form with needs and vulnerabilities—may be a negligible factor.

Implication for Ethics: Issues like bodily autonomy, health, or physical suffering may be undervalued or dismissed in immortal-centric moral systems. Example: A moral rule against killing might lose its force if immortals cannot die.

6. Timelessness vs. Temporality

Immortals, existing outside time, might approach moral rules without urgency.

For Humans: Humans operate within a temporal framework where decisions often have immediate and cumulative consequences. Moral systems accounting for immortals might lack the dynamism or flexibility required for real-world contexts. Result: A static, rigid moral code could emerge, incompatible with evolving human societies.

7. Neglect of Personal Experience

Immortals, presumed to exist in a realm of pure reason or spirit, may not value the subjective, experiential aspects of morality.

Human Perspective: Emotions, relationships, and lived experiences deeply inform human morality. An immortal-driven framework might ignore these dimensions, leading to an overly intellectualized ethic.

8. Irrelevance to Pluralism

Immortals are often imagined as homogeneous (all-rational, all-knowing).

Human Reality: Humans are diverse, with different cultures, beliefs, and interests. A moral system derived from immortal considerations may lack mechanisms for accommodating pluralism or resolving conflicts.

Outcome: Ethical alienation—where moral rules feel imposed rather than collaboratively derived.

Concluding Thought

Incorporating immortals into moral philosophy shifts the focus from practical, context-sensitive agreements to abstract, eternal principles. While this might provide a lofty ideal, it risks alienating ethical frameworks from human realities. For the social contract tradition, which thrives on agreements between equal and interdependent beings, the inclusion of immortals undermines the basis for mutual, practical cooperation.

Would you like to explore how this critique could apply to specific philosophers, such as Kant or others? __________________________________________________ You said:

YES

ChatGPT said:

Let’s delve deeper into the implications of dealing with immortals within the frameworks of specific philosophers, focusing on Kant, Hobbes, and Rousseau, as well as the broader social contract tradition.

1. Kant and Immortals

Kant’s ethical framework presupposes a realm of rational beings, including immortals like God, angels, and noumenal selves. Here’s how the inclusion of immortals impacts his system:

Implications for Kant’s Moral Philosophy Abstract Universality:

Kant’s categorical imperative demands rules that could apply universally to all rational beings. However, when this includes immortals, the scope of universality may disregard human-specific conditions (e.g., mortality, emotions, needs). Example: Immortals don’t face death or hunger, so a rule against taking lives might seem irrelevant to them. For humans, this is essential.

Moral Perfectionism:

Kant’s ethics assumes that rational beings can act purely out of duty, guided by reason. Immortals, with perfect rationality, embody this ideal, but humans struggle with competing desires and limitations.

Tension: The gap between human and immortal capacities makes Kantian morality aspirational but potentially impractical.

Immortal Rules and Human Existence:

Kant’s noumenal realm detaches morality from the physical, embodied world. An immortal, disembodied perspective might devalue actions tied to human embodiment, like caring for others’ physical well-being.

Critique Summary

By framing morality for a timeless, rational realm, Kant risks creating a system disconnected from human realities. The inclusion of immortals shifts his ethics toward a speculative “science fiction,” as your earlier critique aptly noted.

2. Hobbes and Immortals

Hobbes’s social contract is grounded in the mortal condition of humans—specifically, the fear of death and the desire for self-preservation. Introducing immortals would fundamentally alter his framework.

Implications for Hobbes No Fear of Death:

Hobbes argues that the fear of violent death motivates humans to form a social contract. Immortals, being invulnerable, lack this incentive.

Consequence: Immortals wouldn’t need to establish a Leviathan or any political order to protect themselves. Their participation in a social contract becomes unnecessary.

Lack of Material Concerns:

Immortals don’t compete for resources, land, or power, which Hobbes sees as primary drivers of conflict. Without these pressures, the rationale for a Hobbesian contract dissolves.

Disconnection from Humans:

If humans are mortal and immortals are not, their interests and concerns diverge so significantly that any shared social contract would privilege one group while neglecting the other.

Critique Summary

Hobbes’s mortal-focused social contract collapses if immortals are involved, as their invulnerability undermines the core motivations for political and moral agreements.

3. Rousseau and Immortals

Rousseau’s social contract emphasizes the collective good and the general will. His vision is grounded in human equality and shared vulnerability. Introducing immortals destabilizes this balance.

Implications for Rousseau General Will and Immortal Interests:

The general will seeks the common good, but immortals, with eternal perspectives, may define “common good” in ways that neglect human priorities like survival or well-being.

Example: Immortals might prioritize abstract principles of justice over practical human concerns, like ending hunger.

Inequality of Power:

Rousseau’s framework assumes all participants in the social contract are roughly equal. Immortals, with their superior knowledge and capacities, create an insurmountable hierarchy, undermining the egalitarian foundation.

Dehumanization of Morality:

Rousseau sees morality as rooted in human nature and empathy. Immortals, being unembodied, may lack the emotional resonance necessary for fostering solidarity and compassion.

Critique Summary

The inclusion of immortals fractures Rousseau’s egalitarian vision, creating a moral and political system that alienates humans from their shared, embodied experiences.

4. Broader Implications for the Social Contract Tradition

The inclusion of immortals in the social contract tradition introduces conceptual tensions across the board:

Asymmetric Interests: Immortals and humans have fundamentally different priorities. The resulting contracts might marginalize human-specific concerns. Undermined Reciprocity: Social contracts rely on mutual vulnerability and interdependence. Immortals, being self-sufficient, lack these qualities, destabilizing the logic of cooperation.

Loss of Practical Relevance: Social contracts derive legitimacy from addressing real-world human concerns. Introducing immortals shifts the focus to speculative, otherworldly realms, undermining the contract’s applicability.

Concluding Thought

When immortals are included in moral or political systems like Kant’s or the broader social contract tradition, the frameworks risk becoming detached from human realities. This critique not only highlights the limitations of these philosophical models but also emphasizes the importance of grounding moral and political theories in the lived experiences of finite, embodied beings.

Too much amnesia in the Original Position of John Rawls

John Rawls in his A Theory of Justice (1971) posits a group of rational people who are told to deliberate on rules of justice for a life they will have after being transported into some unpredictable human condition in some unpredictable institutional situations.

He concludes that the only rational choice is to agree on two principles. The following formulation here will suffice:

The two principles of justice are the liberty principle and the difference principle. The two principles are intended to apply to the basic structure of society–the fundamental political and economic arrangements–as opposed to particular actions by governmental officials or individual statutes. The liberty principle requires that the basic structure provide each citizen with a fully adequate scheme of basic liberties — such as freedom of conscience, freedom of expression, and due process of law. The difference principle requires that inequalities in wealth and social position be arranged so as to the benefit the worst off group in the world. Rawls states that the two principles are lexically ordered, with the liberty principle taking precedence over the difference principle in the case of conflict.

As it turns out, although the altered condition of the people in the Original Position is unpredictable, their transported institutional situation seems to be a liberal democratic society with a capitalist economy. So, in effect they are asked to write a meta-law for, let’s say, the Constitution of the United States. In effect, the second principle would require the introduction of either a right to a job for all or a basic income for all, and perhaps a free universal health care.

What these people in the Original Position seem to have forgotten is that they are animals on earth who need access to subsistence, and that they can get this subsistence if they have a free access to land. Before the contents of some agreed to rule is adopted, it is first necessary to make agreements in the first place. So, it seems that the first order of business is to come up with two meta-rules: Meta-Rule 1: Make Agreement (on Rules) rather than resort to coercion (War); Meta-Rule 2: Abide by the agreements (Rules).

Really, instead of the contrived Original Position, a more historically realistic situation is envisioned by John Stuart Mill. He imagines a group of colonists arriving at some uninhabited land.

Book II, Chapter 1. Principles of Political Economy:

In considering the institution of property as a question in social philosophy, we must leave out of consideration its actual origin in any of the existing nations of Europe. We may suppose a community unhampered by any previous possession; a body of colonists, occupying for the first time an uninhabited country; bringing nothing with them but what belonged to them in common, and having a clear field for the adoption of the institutions and polity which they judged most expedient; required, therefore, to choose whether they would conduct the work of production on the principle of individual property, or on some system of common ownership and collective agency.

If private property were adopted, we must presume that it would be accompanied by none of the initial inequalities and injustices which obstruct the beneficial operation of the principle in old societies. Every full grown man or woman, we must suppose, would be secured in the unfettered use and disposal of his or her bodily and mental faculties; and the instruments of production, the land and tools, would be divided fairly among them, so that all might start, in respect to outward appliances, on equal terms. It is possible also to conceive that in this original apportionment, compensation might be made for the injuries of nature, and the balance redressed by assigning to the less robust members of the community advantages in the distribution, sufficient to put them on a par with the rest. But the division, once made, would not again be interfered with; individuals would be left to their own exertions and to the ordinary chances, for making an advantageous use of what was assigned to them. If individual property, on the contrary, were excluded, the plan which must be adopted would be to hold the land and all instruments of production as the joint property of the community, and to carry on the operations of industry on the common account. The direction of the labour of the community would devolve upon a magistrate or magistrates, whom we may suppose elected by the suffrages of the community, and whom we must assume to be voluntarily obeyed by them. The division of the produce would in like manner be a public act. The principle might either be that of complete equality, or of apportionment to the necessities or deserts of individuals, in whatever manner might be conformable to the ideas of justice or policy prevailing in the community.

Examples of such associations, on a small scale, are the monastic orders, the Moravians, the followers of Rapp, and others: and from the hopes, which they hold out of relief from the miseries and iniquities of a state of much inequality of wealth, schemes for a larger application of the same idea have reappeared and become popular at all periods of active speculation on the first principles of society. In an age like the present [1848], when a general reconsideration of all first principles is felt to be inevitable, and when more than at any former period of history the suffering portions of the community have a voice in the discussion, it was impossible but that ideas of this nature should spread far and wide. The late revolutions in Europe have thrown up a great amount of speculation of this character, and an unusual share of attention has consequently been drawn to the various forms which these ideas have assumed: nor is this attention likely to diminish, but on the contrary, to increase more and more.

Rawls’ problem is caused by starting off with a bad idea of justice. Justice, in short, is simply the virtue of keeping to your agreements.


Anyway, here is Noam Chomsky’s view of Rawls:

Commentary on Michael Sandel

I have watched Michael Sandel’s Harvard course on justice, as well as some of his other public appearances, such as:

TED talk: The lost art of democratic debate

I find myself viewing his performances from different perspectives.

First, he claims as his agenda to promote public discourse on the common good. On this he is deluded. There are countless writings on moral issues. But very few read them. Then there are the speeches of eminent public speakers, such as Chomsky, Hedges, Hitchens, Zinn, Kinzer, Vidal, Pilger; and such programs as Democracy Now, Real News, and all sorts of Progressive publications. But who is aware of any of this? And who will listen to and take note of what Sandel is doing?

Second, he claims to be providing an example of what public discourse should look like. So what is his example? It is to introduce controversial questions, and offer the audience (or students) an opportunity to express their opinions with a reason. This is followed by Sandel’s own (sometimes prepared) commentary — not necessarily to adjudicate from his own perspective. One is left with the questions unresolved.

Third, his approach does not question our political institutions, but raises questions as a way of prescribing what the government should do. He does not seem to realize that our prescriptions to the government are otiose. As an example, in the U.S. preparation for an attack on Iraq in 2003, there were huge protests against this action both in the United States and the world. The result? Iraq was attacked.

The conclusion I draw is that public (democratic) opinion in the U.S. and in most other countries does not much matter.

Fourth, the issue he should be discussing is whether our political institutions function to promote the common good. Apparently, Sandel himself thinks that they do not. But he offers no guidance as to how to improve them.

Fifth, I have fundamental disagreements with him about his discourse on justice. Let me do this by saying something about the four cardinal virtues: moderation (or temperance), fortitude (or courage), prudence (or wisdom), and justice.

Virtues are habits or dispositions. The first three virtues can be exercised by a solitary individual like Robinson Crusoe on an island. The fourth virtue — justice — concerns behavior towards others; let us say of Crusoe towards Friday. And if justice is a habit or disposition, what is this disposition? My simple answer is that it is a disposition to abide by agreements.

And what will be the agreements which Crusoe and Friday make? Their common concern is to stay alive: self-preservation. And to do this they have to have a free access to the land and water for food and shelter — in short, the necessities for sustaining life. So, they will agree on some equal division of land or on some equal mode of access to the necessities for life. They will also agree not to harm each other nor to interfere with their pursuit of these necessities. But I think they would also agree to an exception clause, namely, that these agreements are not binding if they threaten self-preservation.

Justice or morality is the disposition to sincerely abide by these agreements. And injustice or immorality is to act counter to these agreements. That is all.

I know that the usual view of justice has to do with something like an equal application of the law. Well, if, let us say, Crusoe and Friday agree to have a judge or arbitrator — call him Joe, then Joe will agree to use an impartial rule to decide cases. And if Joe abides by such an agreement, Joe will act justly as a judge; otherwise, he will act unjustly by not abiding by the agreement to act impartially.

My sixth and last comment, is that a discussion of justice has to take into consideration history and sociology; specifically, we have to take into account the fact that, as argued by Franz Oppenheimer, in his book The State, states have arisen through conquest, and have morphed from slave empires, to feudal kingdoms, to constitutional democracies and dictatorships. In all cases states have been resilient to moral considerations, and have supported various forms of plutocracy and capitalism.